WCC Staff Team Reformation Petition

Number of posts : 703 Age : 26

Hello WCC!!

Recent events on-site have been disappointing for many members of this community. There is an evident lack in stability, trust, and order on WCC in the past week or so, and after I posted my departure, many members reached out to me in grief of what happened. It's had me thinking for days, and today the idea of a petition popped into my head.

Many members have left since Holly, WCC's current sole admin, made the executive decision to unfairly demote Ripped, which caused many long-term and newer loyal members to leave in protest of. As many of us stated, we cannot stay at a site and support a staff team who makes decisions like that.

I wrote something up and reached out to some of the community to get feedback, thoughts, and opinions on the content of the petition. This petition is a collaborative effort of many of the community's concerns regarding Holly's fitness to lead the community, and our proposed course of action to fix what has been broken by allowing the community to democratically nominate and vote for members that they believe would be trustworthy and good staff members.

We ask that you review this with an open mind and read it and see it as a strive for something positive, with the best interests of WCC in mind, rather than a means to cause more issues. Please consider the WCC you have known in the past, vs what it has turned into.

Additionally, you can voice your support by voting on the attached poll and commenting "voted!" - You don't have to say which option you chose, but in this way the community can see WHO voted, rather than just staff. The community should have a voice in a democratic vote. It should have always, and should have the option to vote for staff in the future.
Your voice matters. You can be the difference.

WCC Staff Reformation Petition

I want to conclude this by stating, that even if the majority of votes chooses to keep Holly - that is what the vote is for. We just want the community to make an informed, honest decision.

______________________________________

"I hope that we can meet again one day, you and I," she mewed, "under peaceful skies."

Love Letter to WCC

Re: WCC Staff Team Reformation Petition Tue 30 Apr 2024 - 19:48 by **Maple**

I voted.

Re: WCC Staff Team Reformation Petition Tue 30 Apr 2024 - 20:02 by **Maple**

uwubers wrote:: Additionally, you can voice your support by voting on the attached poll and commenting "voted!" - You don't have to say which option you chose, but in this way the community can see WHO voted, rather than just staff. The community should have a voice in a democratic vote. It should have always, and should have the option to vote for staff in the future.
Your voice matters. You can be the difference.

Just wanna pop in and say that from an outside perspective, especially if someone doesn’t keep up with the replies and/or discord, this may read as members having the option to comment that they voted, since it says “can” rather than “should” or another alternative. I know that wasn’t the intention when writing it but to someone who wasn’t sure it may have been confusing! And I don’t think it’s entirely fair to accuse someone/the community of making assumptions, not making informed decisions, or jumping to conclusions when they may have just been confused by the wording. Being afraid of perceived hostility or a tense atmosphere is a different scenario altogether that I don’t really have the time or energy to share my opinion on at the moment, but I did think it was important to hop on real quick and share what I noticed. Thanks!

Re: WCC Staff Team Reformation Petition Wed 1 May 2024 - 7:34 by WCCAnon

It's not like WCC doesn't have a long and upsetting history of making, for lack of a better term, 'callout posts' when someone crosses the wrong person. There's no shame in wanting anonymity when the consequences of being public about your opinion are as dire as "1000 word callout document with such gems as 'Holly had computer troubles in January, do you really want someone like that on staff?'".

Really, we can all do better. How many people have to leave before we can put the drama away and focus on moving forward? I propose my own democratically voted petition, with the following course of action:

- Stop complaining about things for one (1) month. The entirety of the month of May. After May, you can complain about things again, but that gives the staff team time to deal with the battle system, legal threats, and the lack of staff.
- When May comes, complain in limited amounts, directly to the people who you have grievances with. DM someone on staff and set up a meeting where you can hash things out. Don't make the rest of the site suffer through your grudges.
- Formally apologise on behalf of all those hurt or driven off by all this. How many people would still be here if a small subset of members hadn't decided to blow this up and make it everyone else's problem?

You can, of course, decide not to do any of this... but if you care about WCC, if you actually want it to improve and you want people to stop leaving because of the drama, then prolonging this isn't helping anyone.
I'm asking you, politely, to do better. And if your response to this is "um, who are you anyway?", then you're comically missing the point.

Re: WCC Staff Team Reformation Petition Wed 1 May 2024 - 10:09 by **uwubers**

Politely, no.

Re: WCC Staff Team Reformation Petition Wed 1 May 2024 - 11:02 by **Tara**

WCCAnon wrote:: It's not like WCC doesn't have a long and upsetting history of making, for lack of a better term, 'callout posts' when someone crosses the wrong person. There's no shame in wanting anonymity when the consequences of being public about your opinion are as dire as "1000 word callout document with such gems as 'Holly had computer troubles in January, do you really want someone like that on staff?'".

Really, we can all do better. How many people have to leave before we can put the drama away and focus on moving forward? I propose my own democratically voted petition, with the following course of action:

- Stop complaining about things for one (1) month. The entirety of the month of May. After May, you can complain about things again, but that gives the staff team time to deal with the battle system, legal threats, and the lack of staff.
- When May comes, complain in limited amounts, directly to the people who you have grievances with. DM someone on staff and set up a meeting where you can hash things out. Don't make the rest of the site suffer through your grudges.
- Formally apologise on behalf of all those hurt or driven off by all this. How many people would still be here if a small subset of members hadn't decided to blow this up and make it everyone else's problem?

You can, of course, decide not to do any of this... but if you care about WCC, if you actually want it to improve and you want people to stop leaving because of the drama, then prolonging this isn't helping anyone.
I'm asking you, politely, to do better. And if your response to this is "um, who are you anyway?", then you're comically missing the point.

I think telling people to just not talk is not the way to go. However, I do think banned members should stay off of this site. Ember.

Re: WCC Staff Team Reformation Petition Wed 1 May 2024 - 11:36 by **uwubers**

Looks at staff, mostly Holly.
Are we still trying to figure out what to do with the illegal burner account? Lol

We love skewing poll results will banned members don't we.

Re: WCC Staff Team Reformation Petition Wed 1 May 2024 - 12:04 by JJ

WCCAnon wrote:: Formally apologise on behalf of all those hurt or driven off by all this. How many people would still be here if a small subset of members hadn't decided to blow this up and make it everyone else's problem?

With all due respect (which is to say, none) "WCCAnon" - are you delusional, or just dense? To say that we, the ones who left because we no longer felt comfortable here due to what HOLLY started, are the reason for the destabilization of the site is quite possibly the most ridiculous thing I have heard during this whole fiasco.

If someone left because of this drama, it's not because we, the "other people", are swaying them or luring them away. There is no secret "let's kill WCC" plot brewing in the background - and in fact, several of us have encouraged members to stay after they approached us with concerns. Whether those members still chose to step away from WCC is their own decision, as it's been for every single person who left this site in the last week.

Maybe the longer this exit streak continues, the more you'll get it in your head that maybe there is something inherently wrong with the way things are being run right now - including Holly's refusal to ban your definitely illegal account.

The motions we went through to ensure that the results of this poll were not skewed by foul play were for nothing, and even if it had gone to plan, we have Holly's answer already - she never intended to respect the results of the poll regardless if it's what the majority of members wanted.

The people you wanted gone are gone. They're not coming back, don't worry. You "won." Enjoy your kingdom of ash.

To Holly: Ban the burner account and stop perpetuating the nonsense. It's over.

Re: WCC Staff Team Reformation Petition Wed 1 May 2024 - 12:14 by **Karuna**

Holly never skewed the results of this poll. Ember's actions are her own.

Things never had to get this out of hand. You never had to make a mistake into such a big blow up.

Just as you said, Holly is not stepping down. You cannot force her to do so. So this poll is useless. We have no more reason to argue, so just give it a rest.

Honestly, I hope all of this was worth it.

Re: WCC Staff Team Reformation Petition Wed 1 May 2024 - 12:43 by **kjSage**

Ember was banned for a reason. Her throwaway should be as well. And honestly the way Anon's subsequent posts come across... Yeah. You aren't subtle. It's a shame that old drama that should have been done with must be brought up.

Every time there is drama, people who have been uninvolved with the site for years crawl out of the woodwork and it's a terrible look. In this case, Ember popping up despite a well-deserved ban reflects poorly on Holly, whether she knew or not. I would like to believe she didn't.

And no, former members popping up after years is not the same as the people who have left over the current drama chiming in. They should be allowed to do so, and to tell someone that they shouldn't be allowed to complain or express their frustrations (however heated, as I've watched this thread progress) is beyond foolish.

Karuna is right that this should not have blown up into what it's become. I have stayed mostly out of this particular side of the drama but I have seen the aggression from both sides. Uwu's criticisms were harsh but not aggressive at the start. That cannot be said for other people on both sides of this and it's absolutely childish and ridiculous.

Regardless of where any of you stand on Holly as admin, or on the idea of a vote, new staff are going to be chosen. I think for me what's important is that Holly has acknowledged that mistakes were made with regards to the situation that has caused all this. Mistakes have been made on all sides of this. And this (mistakes Holly has acknowledged) can't be allowed to happen again.

As for my opinion over whether a vote has merit or not... I think it can if handled properly. Which I don't believe this community or staff will be equipped to do in the foreseeable future. Not with tensions this high. Not with how personal this seems to be for certain people, or how heated some of the arguing has become.

The next couple months, how staff is handled going forward, how future conflict is handled, will be very telling.

Re: WCC Staff Team Reformation Petition Wed 1 May 2024 - 12:54 by **Karuna**

I agree that Ember should not be allowed here. She was banned. That ban should remain.

But here is the thing. It is unconfirmed that this is Ember. Is it likely? Yes. But Holly is still investigating to confirm. And it is not fair to accuse Holly of skewing the poll when she didn't even know this person was going to show up.

As for kj's statement on how poorly this was handled on both sides.... I apologize for my part in that. I lost my temper, and that was unfair of me.

This is going to be my last post on this topic. I should have stepped away a lot sooner when I found I could no longer remain polite.

I wish you all the best, and I really do hope this drama can come to an end.

Re: WCC Staff Team Reformation Petition Wed 1 May 2024 - 13:47 by **Tara**

I have no doubts the burner account is Ember. And yes, it does look bad that she came out of nowhere right as this all blew up. Unless she has been lurking around for years (which wouldn't surprise me that much honestly) someone told her what was going on and now here she is, hiding behind a burner account. Karuna and Holly were previously involved with this member before, and while I am well over that drama and I have no real ill will toward either Karuna or Holly for mistakes made ages ago, I do admit it certainly pokes the sleeping bear and raises suspicions. I hope its just paranoia, because while Holly and I tackle problems at very different angles and have very very different perspectives on things, I really was looking forward to the possibility of working with her as a member of staff. I think opposite perspectives can be particularly helpful to solving issues, provided we communicate with each other clearly, and I have already expressed my viewpoint to Holly herself.

Re: WCC Staff Team Reformation Petition Wed 1 May 2024 - 17:11 by **Holly**

I was waiting for the go-ahead from Aspen to both enact the bans and to post this, but as of today the WCCAnon account has been banned from WCC (and Anon added to the banned usernames list); and Emberglow has been directly contacted to question whether or not it's their account. Regardless of the answer, at this point in time Emberglow remains banned from WCC.

That said, the old drama in question was brought up from the very start of this petition--I honestly wouldn't be surprised if dragging up the subject of the 2021 bans after several years did cause Emberglow (or, indeed, anyone from that time who might have been lurking since) to come back and speak their mind, regardless of whether or not it's considered acceptable to do so (which is another matter entirely: banned users are, excepting rare cases of abuse of power, banned for good reason; I'm not arguing against that at all, nor am I saying that any of the bans in question should be lifted).

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WCC Staff Team Reformation Petition

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