Walking On Thin Ice [Clan Meeting / Open]

Incredibly biased based on who Gingerstripe's brother was, Dawnpetal was about to yowl her denial to give him refuge in their Clan. However she forced herself to really think about the situation. Gingerstripe may be related to Firestone, but that didn't mean he was Firestone. She couldn't help but think back to many moons ago when she accidentally killed her own mother, even though her death had helped set her free from Buttercup's wrath. Blizzardstar's wording of how Gingerstripe killed his own mother sounded like intention to attack, but accident to kill. She could definitely sympathize with him, and though she knew murder wasn't acceptable by any means she herself was given a second chance by those she confessed her crime to. Why shouldn't Gingerstripe be granted that same second chance?

She sighed, then stood up and called out from where she stood in the back of the gathered cats. "I think we should let him stay." She was prepared for any backlash her opinion would received, and she practically braced herself physically for the argumentative yowls.

"Let him stay." It wasn't a particularly loud or demanding statement. Yet it wasn't said as a suggestion. Swoopnose truly believed what he was saying was right, but didn't want to seem like he was flipping out. After what happened with RiverClan, he thought it would be better to play it safe. At Blizzardstar's story, he didn't see anything wrong with Gingerstripe. He had made a mistake based off anger and misunderstanding of the code. That was something he would do as well. And just because he was a bit cowardly didn't make him evil. Besides, he had redeemed that by risking coming to ThunderClan in the first place. To him, the decision was obvious. He just hoped the rest of the clan saw it the same way. "I would flip too if my parents turned out to be codebreakers. And lack of bravery to tell the truth doesn't make him evil."

OOC: Oh the irony

A snarl hitched in the apprentice's mouth as soon as his fears were concerned. Immediately, he jumped to his paws with bristling fur. It was worse than he thought, they weren't just thinking about taking in an enemy cat, but also one who had murdered another senselessly. With flattened ears, he hissed lowly to Sootpaw, "Apparently another no-good piece of foxdung we're supposed to accept as a clanmate." Taking in Boarpaw had been enough for him to want to tear something apart, but this was a whole other level. He lashed his tail for a moment, not quite considering the words he would say, but rather just sorting through his own anger and only growing more frustrated as a result. It only took a moment more for him to raise a furious yowl that stood out among the rest of the answers.

"The only reason this rogue is here is to save his own hide. A few nights ago he would have torn into any Thunderclanner alongside his Riverclan friends! And a murderer too? I wouldn't share a den with him if it were the last nest in the forest." Eaglepaw paused, his sides heaving and eyes boring into the ginger tom that sat there. His gaze seemed to radiate the building hatred that had so quickly built up inside of him, "Another cat breaking the code does not excuse doing the same. Or can I just tear his throat out here in camp?" The threat was evident in Eaglepaw's words as his lip curled back in disgust. His claws unsheathed and he took a step forwards. Underneath his short pelt, muscles rippled and tensed. While the tom would not attack unless permitted by his leader, being a firm believer in the code himself, the apprentice was certainly ready to do so.

Wisteriapool sat there silently and calmly as she listened to Blizzardstar retell Gingerstripe's story. The she-cat couldn't tell if any words had been twisted to make the former ShadowClanner seem better than he actually was, she trusted Blizzardstar enough to know that the fluffy leader wouldn't blatantly lie to her Clanmates. However, no matter how it was phrased or worded, Gingerstripe was a murderer who broke the warrior code. It sounded harsh, but it was the truth. When ThunderClan took in Boarpaw, Wisteriapool was fine with it. She didn't judge cats by their origins, but by the content of their character. Boarpaw had saved her mother, so it would only be unfair for her to not except the tom. This cat, Gingerstripe, however, hadn't done anything to benefit any cat in ThunderClan or in the forest. All he had done was taken the life of a cat. Not just any cat, but a medicine cat. Anger wasn't an excuse to kill another being in cold-blood, and the ginger-and-white cat didn't want to share a den with a cat who could quite possibly end up killing another cat because of his feelings. Wisteriapool had no intentions of standing up in front of the crowd and stating her opinion, so all she could do was slowly shake her head as a silent sign of saying 'no'.

Birchheart gave Eaglepaw a flat look as he sat down, bristling and already filled with agitation. Was he always this way? She simply shrugged to answer his question before Blizzardstar spoke. When he unsheathed his claws, seemingly ready to attack, she gave him a sheathed swat on the back of his head with her paw. "Don't stoop down like that. I won't let you become a murder as well. We've had too many..." The she-cat's voice wavered for a moment before growing strong again. Her sharp gaze wasn't wasted on him or Gingerstripe. But, she did waste it on Blizzardstar. "Blizzardstar, you had my mother killed before my eyes for murdering an apprentice and simply let Ivystar drag away another family member, an apprentice for a casualty in a border skirmish. Yet, this... murderer is given sympathy, offered a nest and precious fresh-kill while my mother's corpse still rots? Specklefang killed an apprentice because she was angry, right? What stops you from whimpering and poisoning this murderer as well for killing not an apprentice but, a former medicine cat, chosen by StarClan?"

Wildfire shook her head and growled. "We have enough mouths to feed. We don't need a murderer to feed as well." The words were bile on her tongue, she'd been a murderer as well, hadn't she? But here she was, cozy in her nest with kits on the way and a warrior name.

Newttongue got up sharply as the debate started, nudging Wildfire's shoulder as to make sure she didn't say anything stupid before speaking. "By taking in this tom, you soil our name further. I gain some respect for you not crumbling under the words of StarClan again, however, we already look like a band of murderers. This will cause the other clans to turn further away from us.
We can't afford another quarrel, let alone over us sheltering more killers."

Boarpaw kept his gaze down, not sure if he should speak. He'd been urged to kill before, Pigeon's way of keeping him terrified of others. But, this wasn't against Gingerstripe's will. He'd done it out of anger. The tom had grown angry at his own mother before, she practically sealed his fate to freeze and die in the cold but... he'd never kill her. The tom wasn't filled with the code either. Was it really so important that cats killed others over breaking it?


wheeze, i have all TC cats now, you're welcome. I hope you like their sass, they all have some.]

Forestpaw heard Eaglepaw's remark and got angry. She stomped up to both him, "Whats wrong with you?" She said with an aggravated tone, fire burning in her eyes. "Don't judge him unless you know where his loyalties lie." Forestpaw was the kind of cat who didn't judge a cat on their roots, unless they were disloyal. She wondered why Eaglepaw was this way. Then again, Eaglepaw had been like this since they were kits, and sootpaw had taken after him, copying his attitude. "I agree with Swoopnose and Dawnpetal, She said, calming down and softening her eyes. "I think he should stay." She then chose a different place to sit, beside Violetfall. She sighed and sat down, kneading the ground.

Dustcloud, with a tired look on her face, listened intently to what her clanmates were saying. She looked from cat to cat as they spoke, calmly waiting for her turn. She grew slightly agitated with Eaglepaw's seemingly bloodthirsty response, but she shook her head, not letting the Tom cloud her judgment. As her tail flicked back and forth, she looked up to Blizzardstar, thankful for the silence that allowed her a moment to collect her words and put them in order. "Although R-RiverClan and Sh-ShadowClan alike m-may have their v-views," The she-cat looked to a few of her Clan-mates, her gaze finally landing on the ginger tom that sat beneath Blizzardstar. "I s-see no r-reason why they sh-should have any i-impact on Th-ThunderClan's action in th-the matter. This y-young cat m-made a m-mistake, as all o-of d-do on a r-r-regular basis. Mistakes are something we l-learn from, s-somethign we h-have to build u-upon over time. It's w-what makes us o-ourselves, separates u-us from all the o-others. Although th-this former Sh-ShadowClanner may have m-made a mistake m-much worse th-than those we make e-everyday, we c-cannot say he hasn't gr-grown from them. With t-time comes w-w-wisdom, and we are i-in no place to say th-that he has n-not learned from h-his errors, and for th-that reason, I b-believe that he sh-should at least b-be given a chance f-for a happy l-life." The older she-cat smiled towards the obviously nervous tom, a gentle kindness in her eyes that couldn't have been mistaken for anything else.

ooc: can you tell i missed angry eagle? i missed angry eagle ;)

"I follow the code. Unlike some." He grunted back to Birchheart in a low-tone. His amber eyes never once left the foreign cat that sat before him. How could his clanmates so easily accept this? Was forgiveness that they did not owe more important than true loyalty to the clan? Eaglepaw only took a step back to show that he would not actually attack, but his body language was still just as menacing as it had been moments earlier. The aggressive apprentice would not step down. Dedication to the code and to his own personal values did not allow the softness or weakness that other cats seemed to display. However, it was reassuring to hear his mentor and Birchheart also speak against the ginger tom.

As Forestpaw stepped in front of him, he suppressed a growl. If she was not a worthwhile clanmate, and would it not be against what he believed, the tom would have immediately cuffed her over the head. Apparently, she had down for a brain, "Loyalties? What loyalties, Forestpaw? Has this tom been an ally to Thunderclan that I missed? What reason other than attempting to save his pathetic life or find a place to stay has brought him here. If a cat is foolish enough to break the code over their issues, they deserve a place next to scum that roams twolegplace. Not within a clan. Unless this cat has any reason to be here, any reason of value to my clan and not for himself, he should not be here." Eaglepaw nearly spat, flecks of spittle flying from his maw as he continued in his rage induced state. His claws dug themselves into the earth below that had just begun to thaw. Words from Blizzardstar would immediately silence him, but the stupidity of other apprentices only fueled his frustrations.

Leafstorm's ears twitched as cats began to speak. This was a difficult issue, of course. On one hand, they needed every warrior they could get. But was it worth accepting a murderer into their camp? And what of the other clan's reactions? They needed an alliance with Windclan more than ever now that Shadowclan and Skyclan had sided with Riverclan. The tall warrior sighed, but spoke up."Although it's true that all cats make mistakes, this was certainly a... grave mistake to make. We still can't ignore what he's done, and we can't forget how we've treated out own clanmates, who had been accused of the same crime. And what of Windclan? We need an alliance with them more than ever, and we all know what happened when Ashstar confronted Rockfang. Is one warrior worth losing the only ally we have?"

Sharptooth, wisely, said nothing. She was on thin ice in the first place.

"I think he should stay," Violetfall called out. "He deserves a second chance." Although he was a ShadowClan cat, he seemed to be genuine in his confession and request. Besides, she would always be for recieving outsiders into the Clan, considering her own kittypet origins. And if it turned out for the worst, they could always just exile him again.

Scarletpaw sighed. Her new friend had decided to side with Gingerstripe, but she knew what decision she had to make. "I don't think we should let him stay.
RiverClan already thinks of us as murderers, and accepting another murderer into our midst will just spoil our reputation anymore.

Sootpaw shrunk as voices raised, his already scruffy fur bristling as he seemed to almost hide behind Eaglepaw. Young Sootpaw didn't like his clan-mates shrieking and spitting at each other, deciding a cats fate like it wasn't theirs to choose. Sootpaw wanted it all to end, maybe he should help the voting process along? But what should he say? Eaglepaw would probably yell at him, and that was the worst! So he should agree with Eaglepaw! Poking his head out from behind the large brute he meowed albeit very very quietly. "He shouldn't stay..."

Emberheart listened to her Clanmates, and closed her eyes for a moment before speaking. This was surprisingly divisive, and she found herself more surprised by her own opinion on the matter. After all, she herself had been an outsider taken in, but she had been much younger and much less of a threat. A kittypet that was nearly apprentice-aged, running into the forest after a ghost of a tale. This was a confirmed murderer, by accident or not, and a trained warrior from another Clan - a Clan that had sided against ThunderClan, at that.

"We've had enough murderers in our Clan, Blizzardstar. Specklefang died, Flickerpaw is gone. Why should we welcome another Clan's problem? Besides that, there could be any number of reasons for Gingerstripe wanting to join ThunderClan, but I don't think we should welcome someone who couldn't admit to his own mistakes until ShadowClan's medicine cat forced him to into our home. Besides, Newttongue has a a point. We can't afford to aggravate the other Clans any more right now, and taking in ShadowClan's exiles certainly won't do us any good." Her voice was as calm and level-headed as she could manage, listening to her Clanmates and finding they had other good reasons to object.

Featherheart padded silently to Wisteriapool's side as Blizzardstar spoke. He offered silent comfort as he listened, and debated fiercely in his mind. No cat deserved to die for a mistake... but his grandmother had. His sister was paying the price in a RiverClan camp, where she would never fight beside them again. His tail twitched in aggravation. He glanced up to Boarpaw, curious at what his apprentice must be thinking, but he forced himself back to the matter at paw.

"He can not stay. It would make the sacrifices my family has made for nothing." Featherheart meowed seriously, his green eyes glanced at Dustcloud, who seemed on the strange tom's side. He sighed softly then looked in Gingerstripe's direction. "I am sorry, but I cannot support him. For all this clan has done recently about murderers, what makes a ShadowClan cat immune? Mistake or not, that did not change their punishments, and it should not change his."

-

"If StarClan itself was willing to reveal this, they themselves, have likely not forgiven him." Marshpaw pointed out bluntly as he settled next to Eaglepaw. He shot the smaller apprentice a warning look, but proceeded onwards and stared at Gingerstripe coldly as he continued. He remembered the she-cat, brief things, but she had been good and kind from what he remembered. "Honeydrop was a kind cat, who did not deserve such a cruel death. He may be a former cat of ShadowClan but his action, intentional or not, makes him no clanmate of mine." He glanced up at Blizzardstar apologetically. The relief he had briefly felt at having another former Shadowclan cat at camp was completely gone at this new revelation. He had a hard time holding himself back from leaving the assembly, to occupy his thoughts with prey and stars to purge the thought of Honeydrop on the Thunderpath from his mind.

"Specklefang and Flickerpaw are the exact reasons that we should Gingerstripe in! Our clan made a huge mistake that day, one that we all agree wasn't right. So why use one mistake as an excuse to do the same thing again? We all knew that Flickerpaw wasn't evil, and it was only because of RiverClan that we let her be punished. We took in Marshpaw, and he was ShadowClan. We've harbored murderers and ShadowClanners, so why is Gingerstripe any different?" Swoopnose looked around, shocked by the number of cats who disagreed with him. How could they say these things? In his mind, all of them had very weak arguments, even Birchheart. "Why do we care about our reputation over the right thing to do? He made a mistake, have you not? I've heard no reasons against him that I can't disprove in a heartbeat." He didn't realize how angry he sounded until after. Oh no, it was starting to happen again. Breathing in and out, he tried to calm himself down. Just because his clanmates were making mistakes, he couldn't flip out.