An Overdue Explanation + The End of a great Era

Last edited by Jay Bird on Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:19 pm; edited 1 time in total

Hello members of WCC

As most saw in our Discord server, we faced chaos and division among former admins / staff / rpers and rpers. This caused confusion due to lack of information on what exactly happened to cause all this. Before everything, I wasn't personally there when it happened and I just recollected the story hearing the version of different people. With that being said, and after some deliberation, I think you all deserve to know what happened and the consequences of this. We will offer you full transparency in the people involved, so it's fair for both parties in the issue.

Yesterday, in the chatbox a few old members returned to talk and hang there, among with our current members and a couple of staff. In the middle of this, one of the old members /Firefly) who come back broke the rules by cursing and saying inappropriate content that goes against our policy. A staff member was there (Cays) and though they did ask the person to stop, they continued after a while, doing more inappropriate things. I apologize on behalf of the staff for that madness since the person who did it should have banned from the chatbox by the present staff member there to stop the further conflict.
On another point of the chatbox conversation, Sumashira entered to take away mod powers from former staff (this being part of our rules of not allowing people who are not active in site to have more power than the members who remain here or even the staff). In a miscommunication situation, people who got their chatbox's mod powers removed thought Suma was being disrespectful and rude, which ended up in a heated conversation in which both parts misunderstood each other. Shortly after Suma and the rest of the staff members left, one of the people involved sent an inappropriate thing on chat (OG Jay)
In all this chaos, Mosspelt did what she was told to do: punish those who break our rules. She was told to ban the people but never specified which kind of ban or who exactly. This lead to site-wide banning a bunch of members, some of them not being involved in cursing or sending "not friendly" content.
Today, Pika's trial on being active enough to be considered back into adminship was over and I personally considered she was ready to be part of the team. But after she discovered what has happened and how some of the people banned got banned because they were just there... she decided to take actions on the matter, especially after the people who got banned (not OG Jay and Firefly) were not listened, understood on the vent-zone of our Discord Channel.
The rest of the story, most of you know it. Pika gave these people the control of the Discord server to talk with us in our staff chat but things got out of hand, the chaos started and tensions rose up. I was late to the discussion but once in, I've come with an agreement and after that, the staff has had a discussion on what to do next.

These are all the known facts I've recollected. In my humble opinion, both parties did wrong and, if we want to stick up with our punishment policies, we should both implement punishment to the staff members who did the mistake (mistake or not, it still caused pain and anger) and the ones who stepped over our rules by taking over a server who wasn't theirs, but administrated by the current staff. As a summary, I'll put a list of the current breaks of the rules made by each party involved:

Firefly: saying inappropriate things and cursing on the chatbox. The current punishment for that is ban from the chatbox.
OG Jay: sending inappropriate content. They approached me to say sorry but still get a chatbox ban punishment for breaking the rules
Mosspelt: Site-wide banning a bunch of rpers who weren't involved in breaking the rules but were just there when all this mess happened in the chatbox. No setup punishment yet.
Cays: Not doing her staff job by not banning Firefly when they were around breaking the rules. No setup punishment yet.
The former members who took over the server: breaking Discord rules by stepping over our management as staff without even consulting us. No setup punishment yet.
Pika: giving former member power without consulting us. Her powers as admin and mod have been removed as punishment.

This is for us to show our transparency on the subject, to take responsibilities on the mistake and make amends. However, we also want to know what you think of this and what kind of punishment are appropriate (if you think they deserve it, if not, pls tell us so) for both staff members who did not follow staff's ways and the member who took over the Discord server (banning is no a likely option). As a staff, we punish people when they do wrong things and we should implement those rules over us too, to be fair and square. Please, post your opinions, options or commentaries regarding possible punishments.

Lastly, but no less important, Sumashira has decided to step down from adminship after all this chaos. After some talking, she has decided this would be for the best of the site, but she will still remain as a mod because she is a wonderful staff member. As her former co-admin... I'm grateful for working with her and I hope you can appreciate all her job as admin during this time.

______________________________________

Oaksoul of Riverclan ↠↠ Tier 2 Warrior ↠↠ #3333cc
Ferntwist of Windclan ↠↠ Tier 1 Warrior ↠↠ #0099cc
An Overdue Explanation + The End of a great Era Signat14

I'm really sad to see suma step down.

Ultimately, I still think they people who took over the Discord server should be banned from the Discord server.

Ultimately, I do not believe that the chaos that ensues was due to any of the current staff or active site members. The site has been a wonderful, loving, and great community underneath the leadership of Suma, Jay, and current staff.

The difference and disturbance was instigated by the actions of former members and staff, who do not and seem not have any intention to long term engage with site. I have seen this group on several occasions bring negativity into situations where it is not due. WCC is a different place than when it started, in a good way, and I do not think these particular former members displayed the qualities currently exemplified on the site.

Mosspelt: Acted accordingly to her staff role. While it might have come off as extreme, she did what was entaled of her and what she believed was right for the role. She is a younger staff member, and I do not believe one mishap should deserve punishment.

The people banned, as stated above, were not even and do not intend to be active, contributing members. And staff worked swiftly to review and resolve any issues, despite these people not being active participants.

Caysuna: While Cays did slip up, I do not believe it was because of her this was caused. Again, staff and site has not seen these kind of issues in months. I am sure that with it being discussed, it will not happen. To my knowledge, there have never been issues with Cays in the past and I do not believe she deserves punishment.

Member Who Took Over Discord Server: I believe this should absolutely be punished with banning. Their actions were highly inappropriate and affected the entire discord along with every active member of the site. While Roo was the one who gave the permissions, they perpetuated the issue and disrespected site staff and their authority over the site. Even if these people have contributed in the past, I don't believe it warrants actions such as this or the panic caused. As stated above, I believe the actions of these people also enticed this entire problem to begin with. Current site and members have no seen this issue. I think if initially these people had genuinely come back to contribute and participate in the server and site, it would be different. But unfortunately I think banning is now called for after everything. These particular members have not contributed anything positive and only caused issues that proved to be detrimental to the site.

I'm disappointed to see Suma go. She was an incredible admin and alongside Jay did help to bring the lovely nature of site we currently have.

I simply do not like to see people argue and this entire circumstance was met with immaturity and rude behavior but several people. Props to the current staff for dealing with it!!

While I do believe that the people who took over the discord server should have a harsh punishment because that was completely uncalled for, I would like to see a more mild punishment for everyone. Including those fore mentioned. This was all caused by a misunderstanding and, while it could have been handled better, I think that everyone should be given the benefit of the doubt, as everyone though they were in the right. While I do not condone this behavior at all, I also see that it was not a one sided issue and the punishments should be equal in harshness, and not everyone here deserves a harsh punishment, so everyone should get a mild punishment. But that is just my opinion.

Hoo boy, time to air out the dirty laundry. Spy on our discord server (yes, we know about that, you weren't subtle about it) and talk all the ---- you want about me and my friends in your private chat groups, like the totally mature grown adults you are (god, some of you are almost thirty and you're behaving like thirteen year olds used to act here in 2010). I've seriously had it up to here with you guys bullying my friends and treating roles on this site like a paying job.

regarding the chatbox incident and related arguments:

regarding former staff roles and pika:

How dare any of you insinuate we don't care about the site anymore because we left for one reason or another - we've made lifelong friends out of this site, some of us have been here for eight, nine, TEN years and we still think about it all the time. How dare you guys treat former admins like ---- when they dedicated years of their life to make this place run smoothly and then have the gall to call us the bullies.

hey, I'm just going to drop my two cents on the whole issue here. This is entirely based on my understanding– I wasn't present during the actual chatbox incident, so I recognize that I have a limit view of what's actually going on. Feel free to skip my reasoning paras and head to the bottom where I share my tl;dr opinion on the punishments themselves!

Firstly, I believe that most of the people banned (if not all, I'm unsure who exactly was banned) were former staff members, meaning that they willingly stepped down and agreed to no longer be part of the WCC staff. It's my understanding that once someone steps down, they don't get to come back and take control of the site again– leaving is leaving, there's no placeholder for them in staff. That being said, I think that Suma made the right decision to strip the former mods/admins of their powers because they're no longer staff members, and therefore are no longer in a position where they need to use those powers. I don't think that this was in any way mean-spirited or intentionally toxic, it's simply how things are supposed to work. Once you step down and leave the site, you're done, you're no longer a member of staff.
In my opinion, this problem was caused in part by former staff members assuming that there will be a position of power saved for them after they left. I think that this could've been resolved earlier with better communication on all sides.
Also, I don't think there's any shame in stepping away or relinquishing mod/admin powers. I understand that a staff member might not be able to provide the amount of commitment needed to perform their duties, and I think its a mature decision to step away if needed. I also believe that it's not disrespectful or embarrassing to have staff powers removed, especially if the staff member in question made a formal post about leaving the site.

Regarding the accidental banning, it's my understanding that it was an accident and the staff member in question was doing what they thought was right. I believe that those who were accidentally banned have been told this repeatedly. Like Fish said, staff isn't as serious as paid job, and therefore I don't think we should punish the staff member harshly for a simple mistake that was quickly fixed and apologized for.

Here's my opinion on what punishments themselves should be:

Pikachu: temporary ban. I think that she should be familiar with the rules of the site, given that she was an admin for ~3 years. Her actions today and last night seem immature to me, and I feel that a temporary ban will reflect the severity of the rules she broke. I don't know the full story, of course, and I don't think she should be banned from WCC permanently.

All former admins/moderators/staff members: all staff-related privileges/powers removed. They are no longer staff. I also think that given how long they've been members of WCC, they should've been able to follow the rules of the site more closely. They should already know that there are many active members who are younger and uncomfortable around bad language.

Members that took over the server: banned from the discord, temporarily banned from WCC. This was unacceptable. They were blatantly disrespectful of the current administration and, in my opinion, this is a big mark of immaturity. A temporary ban would reflect the severity of the broken rules.
Firefly, OG Jay: This should not have happened. I think that they should be banned from the chatbox for breaking rules that they most likely are familiar with, given both their backgrounds as longtime members of WCC.

Mosspelt: No punishment, I believe that she was just doing her job. She's a newer member of staff and I don't believe that she had any ill-intent when she banned those who were breaking the rules.

Cays: Light/no punishment. I trust that Cays did the best she could, and I don't think that she caused this incident. That being said, I know that she didn't ban Firefly, which is part of her job as a staff member, but I wasn't present during the chatbox incident and I don't know all the sides of the story.

just to reiterate, this is entirely my opinion! I wasn't present during the initial conflict and I could've incorrectly understood what happened. Please feel free to correct me if I got something wrong!

While I know it was said in the initial post, I feel like this is necessary.

To all members of the WCC community, I am deeply sorry.
I am especially sorry to the members who were caught in the crossfire last night. I did not exercise my authority the way that I should have, and admit to my mistake. I am willing to accept the consequences for my inaction, knowing that coming from this community, they will be fair and just.

For now, all I have to offer is my heartfelt apologies. I will be sure to perform my duties better in the future. <3

- Your friendly neighbourhood Cays.

hey former staff member here can someone at least put me in starclan group thanks

I respond and offer my own points here.

Last night was a complete disaster, and after thinking long and hard about the situation and considering the very valid points that Fish brought up, I've decided that this entire situation should not have been allowed to happen.

Guys, it might be an unpopular opinion, but now that the dust has settled I think that the current staff should really take a good and long look at what Fish has written here. There's been immaturity, dismissiveness, and extreme overreaction from both sides. Something major has to change about the way things are dealt with here. This was not an isolated incident; this was the climax of mounting stress and frustration and it blew up in the entire sites face. And for what?

Most of us would not be here if not for Pika. Love her or hate her, she helped make this site what it is. And you know, some of my good friends are on this staff, but I think it's considerably strange that significant details about the incident in the chatbox were left out. That's not fair to the people who felt slighted. Like Fish said, retired admins were admins in the first place for a reason. They wouldn't have been chosen if they weren't going to do good by this site.

Some apologies are in order, not to the WCC community, but to the people who were involved in this incident. This is my opinion on that.

Furthermore, it was an extreme reaction to take control of the admin role on the Discord. It caused unnecessary panic and confusion. This could have been handled in a different manner. We didn't have to take it this far. Jay Bird was clearly ready to negotiate fairly from what I could see.

I've decided not to offer my opinion on the punishments of those involved. Everybody screwed up yesterday. To decide who is most at fault would mean picking a side and further fracturing the site.

In my opinion, if they would all have it, I'd like to see staff make amends with those involved and work towards a solution that satisfies everybody's vision for what the site was meant to be.

There is no reason that we should be divided. I trust that the staff members who violated the rules or acted unfairly will be punished accordingly. I trust that the people who were unfairly banned have had those bans removed and have been apologized to.

I did not come to this site with the intention of mediating disputes like this. We're all taking this far too seriously. A lot of people got their prides wounded and they lashed out. It's a testament to how extremely passionate everybody is about this. We always ask "when did we start writing novels in posts and being active every single day?" Well, here's your solution. WE made it like this. WE can undo it if we want to.

I don't have anything left to say. That's my two cents. To everybody, I say: please do better.

- Grizz

edit: I have read Pika's official statement and I stand by the respectful and mature manner in which she spoke her truth, as well as many of her points. She is an intelligent person who handled the site magnificently for years, and I appreciate her very much. I hope we can leave the site better than when you found it.

I regret my involvement, even though I still don't understand why anything escalated to where it did. I wasn't involved in the decisions or discussions to ban; I hadn't even been on WCC since everything happened at 11pm on Friday, and even then my insecurities and concerns were only expressed in the admin channel that Jay Bird, Sleepy, and Pika could see. When I returned in the afternoon of the next day to people banned and furious, I wasn't under the impression that it was because someone disliked me. People dislike me all the time. I thought Jay had been banned for the purposeful profanities they said after Cays left.

I really didn't know that chatbox could be controlled from the admin panel. I accept that "Wow!! Guess what!! There is a thing called google" as Splotchy put it during the confrontation, and I could have done more research on how to do things so that I didn't just appear to remove someone's powers in the middle of a conversation I wasn't involved in. What I did was absolutely never meant to be a personal attack on anyone coming in to have fun and just enjoy their childhood site nostalgia. I tried to explain and apologize during the intervention. I didn't feel that my explanation was heard at all.

Regardless, the people who came in were heard as they intended. Their demands were met and I stepped down, among other things. I never meant to hurt anyone. I wish I could express that in a meaningful way.

Alright, unpopular opinion time

This isn't a one sided arguement. Nobody was 100% in the right, nobody was in 100% the wrong. The staff made mistakes, the infiltrators took it too far. Nobody is the hero and no one's the villian.

Was infiltrating the discord a step to far? Yeah, in retrospect it was pretty extreme. How should it be punished? I don't know. Is perma-banning anyone necessary? That's outside my power. While I think punishments should be dealt out, I'd rather have newer members and the older members work things out, instead of everyone picking a side and gunning down the other

~~but what do i know i'm just ye olden wcc'er~~

I wasn't quite in the cbox for a long time, but I was there for a fair bit and i am the one who unintentionally brought it to staff's attention. I know no one is pointing fingers at me but in retrospect, just posting a screenshot to vent was not the wisest decision and a lack of context and stuff might have influenced the outright ban on everyone else involved, because it might have implied that everyone was doing it.

But we should listen to Fish, I agree with Griz. I spent 30 minutes reading through it rather than skimming like the others because I feel like we need to listen to the ones we're calling "immature". It's like being a teenager and your parents don't listen to your side of the story. Frustrating, right? So let's be the one in a million that listens. We can talk this out without attacking one another and insulting each other.

Just my opinion ♡

Edit: Also, Sleepy and Cays did do something. They gave chances and cleared the chat. But that was basically it; all that followed was pure misunderstandings from both sides. So simultaneously, we are and aren't all at fault. Personally, as long as everyone involved is willing, I'm good to forgive and forget. But I know that's not possible. People were seriously hurt and stressed yesterday and it's not that simple for everybody.

And fish said something like, "no disrespect; it was just time for a change." That's how I feel about Pikachu. What she did was amazing, pretty much bringing a site back from the dead. But for the same reason Washington didn't remain president, fresh blood and new views are beneficial.

As much as I love suma as an admin, I'll stand by that decision and the reasoning behind it. I've heard suma talk about how hard it is to be not as nice as she naturally is, and I totally get that.

@ the users that feel left behind/attacked by us newer members: ily y'all. Yes, mistakes were made. By you and us. But I know you are/were all doing your best. ♡♡♡

» Overdue Explanation[O]
» an overdue thank you [c]
» long overdue
» An Overdue Apology
» hours overdue

An Overdue Explanation + The End of a great Era

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An Overdue Explanation + The End of a great Era

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