Make WCC Great Again

With the increasingly absurdly huge clans, cats being created yet never rped beyond bare minimum or not even touched beyond their creations/apprentice ceremonies, staff have come to you, our community to pitch a rather significant change to the status quo.

For the longest time, WCC has had 5 slots, one for each clan, though having one cat in each clan was never truly enforced. This came from the days our site was much smaller in number, with roughly 20 active members on average. As certain clans were neglected and our member base became far more experienced in handling their characters, we slowly began to introduce more slots and increase leniency on our character limit to balance out the site.

Despite it being a positive at the time, the current system with rper's have potentially 8 characters, has lead to a flood of characters that simply take up space on Allegiances without being actively RPed. Naturally, we are aware that some of you are excellent rpers that are handling all your characters well, each holding an important position in their clans and having their own character arcs. However, one look at RiverClan and ThunderClan should make it undeniable that this system isn't working as intended. It isn't that people are intentionally doing this, but the simple fact that handling 5+ characters is a toll, even on the best.

Which is why that we are suggesting a reduction of the character limit to be 3 slots with no other "special" slot e.g. Elders/Queens. We have debated this over several days, calling on former staff to pitch their opinions and asking members that rped on WCC back when we had a one character only policy. We believe this change will still allow people not feel trapped in one clan, but also encourage rpers to be more attached to their characters. To invest their time in their three characters. Also, this smaller limit would allow for leaders to actually spend time with all their clan members hopefully, considering there will be a reduction of the cat population overall on WCC. For leaders to know each cat in their clan by name, and for clan plots/betrayals/code-breaking to really have consequences.

We don't intend this as a punishment, an attack or any other negative thing. The intention behind this was to provide our members with a closer-knit community and a tighter cast of cats on the site. As for how we'd implement such a change. Staff have a unique idea that will involve a calamity hitting the forest. This will lead to the death of several cats, and serve as a soft reboot. Members would be allowed to keep up to 3 of their current cats (this includes any elders or queens).

Naturally, this is a rather weighted decision. Therefore, we ask for your opinions and thoughts about this potential sitewide change. Please feel free to express your thoughts, however please be civil in your discussion.

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"born of ichor & nectar; excellence already found at fingertips."
resident chewer of bones & mad woman enthusiast | former administrator

current characters | semi-return from inactivity

Re: Make WCC Great Again Mon 21 Jan 2019 - 7:12 by **Ice** *(Online)*

I 100% agree that the lack of activity in having so many cats gets annoying, as far as the alligiances go, but I’m curious as to what the solution would be for getting rid of the majority of our characters would be? Like will there be a plot for it or will we simply just kill them off/let them go? Of course, the for sure plan probably hasn’t been established yet, but I feel many members (me included) are a bit worried about getting rid of characters we worked so hard to grow and develop, even if we aren’t super active with them all the time.

Re: Make WCC Great Again Mon 21 Jan 2019 - 7:13 by Guest

I've been in support of this idea for quite a while. I've known what it is like to have one character slot, and one elder, since I've been around since the pre-boot years. I've seen how close the community has been and how characters reacted to each other with greater depth than what I have seen since the 5 character slots have been established. I've yearned for the days of the one-character slot, and I'm very happy to see them returning but with some more leniency. Though with the one character slot, in exchange for a tight-knit community the clans were very small, and at times I remember that some of the clans had to be restricted from new applications due to the fact that a clan was getting more while a clan had none. I also remember that while you had one cat, you could have two, but only if your cat was an elder before you aged up your new character into an apprentice, and while that was restricting

So I think that 3 slots are a very good compromise, you still get the joys of having a young cast, and you still get a taste of the glory days of pre-boot. I hope everyone on WCC is for this idea or will take a liking to it as much as I have!

Re: Make WCC Great Again Mon 21 Jan 2019 - 7:15 by **Ash**

I definitely understand that the amount of cats is getting out of hand, and I agree that a reduction in their numbers seems necessary. The elder/queen slots served a good purpose, but those cats- and I am guilty of this as well- often end up being shelved and not used. The slot reduction is a good idea, and I think it's been necessary for a while.

However, I think that- in the interest of making sure each Clan has enough cats- the limit should be four cats instead of three or five. It is still up to members whether they want to have the complete amount of cats, but I think that four is a good balance between the larger five and smaller three. I agree that a closer-knit community is a good thing, but I think that raising it to four cats will help make sure that no Clans get neglected in the reboot rush.

Re: Make WCC Great Again Mon 21 Jan 2019 - 7:18 by Falcarolwing

To be perfectly honest, I really enjoy my five, and I think it is a very even, well-rounded number, there being five Clans and all. I know many members would be devastated at this change. I have a suggestion. How about, instead of strictly banning five cats, make it a time thing? Like maybe you start out with three slots, but after, say, a year or so of activity, it is raised to five. Or even just removing the elder/PQ slots. Or creating a rule where each of your cats have to be in a different allegiance.

Still, despite my giving alternatives, I see the reasoning behind the three slots rather well, and I would be only mildly disappointed were it implemented. I certainly wouldn't leave. I do think that the pros you have listed are very valid.

However, I don't think reduced slots will reduce unroleplayed cats from members who are only active the bare minimum, so I do have a last suggestion that could be implemented alone or with others. Why not implement a system where, in the activity checks, you must include a link to a thread in which you roleplayed that cat in (Not necessarily started) each month? It could help clear out space, and one thread per cat a month won't be too taxing to busy members. It could also encourage busy members not to take on more cats than they can use.

Either way, I'm sticking with WCC, no matter what you decide.

Re: Make WCC Great Again Mon 21 Jan 2019 - 7:22 by Laurel

I actually agree with what Falcon wing suggests about just changing the activity check to include a recent link of your red cat that month it would help clear unused cats rarely well. I have seen this system used on other sites and it seems to work pretty well.

Re: Make WCC Great Again Mon 21 Jan 2019 - 7:29 by **Ripped**

Personally, I don't think limiting the slots fixes the issue. I think the root of the issue is too much allowance of time for people who are not active. There are members who come solely to post in activity checks just to keep their characters, which I do not understand myself but is something I've noticed.

For me, the flexibility of 5 characters has been a blessing. Because if a couple get stuck because of plot points or anything else, I can check into another plot with one of my other characters and focus on that. I think 3 would limit this pliability. I know at one point I had 3/5 characters all stuck waiting on things, and whilest that was happening I developed another really well before going back to them. And, currently, all 5 I have are actively engaged with plots I've been keeping up with.

That being said, I do think getting rid of elder slots and queen slots would be good. They're kind of just used as sitting areas for people who don't want to get rid of characters. Going back down from that I think would be beneficial, given they don't really serve a point other than holding characters.

Back to my original point, I think warning inactive people that if they are not regularly using a character (with the exception of course of being gone for a while in an announcement) would cut down on holding spots. Even for older members, who have just dropped activity and don't have time. If a character is inactive for over a month without an announcement, they should probably go, even with activity checks.

I think limiting slots wouldn't fully fix the issue because the issue isn't just some being unused. Most of the time if someone is actice, they are using all five slots. It tends to be inactive members who are posting anyways that you see slots being held. Kind of an all or nothing thing when it comes to activity. And those who are active if they get bored of a character have the opportunity to kill them off an make a new one.

I hope this makes sense. I can see the point and reasoning why cutting down slots might help, but I don't think it would genuinely solve the issue, which seems to be more tied into activity of an RPer rather than number of slots held.

Re: Make WCC Great Again Mon 21 Jan 2019 - 7:32 by Yoshachu

As much as this would hurt a lot of people, I can't say this isn't a fair idea. Don't knock it till you try it, right? However, I know that for some people this would be a really difficult decision, having to decide which cats to nuke and which to keep. So, I wanna offer my own idea:

Perhaps Staff could discuss among each other to decide which members are the more responsible of the RPers on the site (i.e. always posts, doesn't leave their cats hanging for too long, etc.) Perhaps for those members, they could be allowed to keep all five of their cats, but they must keep up with requirements to rank up, and once they hit a certain time (one to two months into senior warriorhood for example) they'd be required to kill the cat off until the RPer is down to three cats.

However, on the opposite side of the spectrum, I feel that we should really use the Activity Check to determine which cats are still active and which aren't. Like, if someone misses or just doesn't fill out the check the first time, they'd be labeled inactive, but they could still have a chance to redeem themselves in the next check. If they miss the second check, though, then they'd no longer be able to RP with their cats anymore, having to be forced to treat their cats as deceased or forever missing from the Clans, never to be RPed with again.

Re: Make WCC Great Again Mon 21 Jan 2019 - 7:46 by **Holly** *(Online)*

I think I agree with Ripped, for the most part. I don't think limiting character slots will actually fix the overall problem, especially with overpopulation in certain Clans.

So, while the elder and queen slots should probably go, I'd like to propose a different change (possibly in addition to Falcon's 'prove you've used your character recently' idea): limiting how many of the current 5 slots can be in one Clan, with a maximum of 2.

Re: Make WCC Great Again Mon 21 Jan 2019 - 8:19 by **Kari** *(Online)*

Okay, now that I'm home and can actually write a post ~~why does Topic'it mobile hate me~~ I gotta say there's a few points here that I agree with entirely. People do tend to favor around 2-3 characters while letting the others fade into the background, but the other thing to consider is something not unlike what Ripped mentioned; people cycle them. When one or two characters are stuck due to plot reasons, people will cycle to the others and develop them... and vice versa. at the same time there are certain people I've encountered in the past on site that will rp their new shiny and proceed to either kill off or ignore their other cat. Those kind of rpers don't develop their characters, and end up dropping their old castlist as soon as they come up with a handful of new ideas. That bothers me, as I'm sure it does other people.

That being said, my original idea was to go along with the three slot idea, while also suggesting the continuation of the +1 special slot (dropping the extra two that were allowed more recently). However, after reading some other people's ideas and what not, my opinion has changed a bit. I agree somewhat with Falcon on the idea of linking a recent topic with your character, but that requires staff to actually check each of those links (a tedious job in and of itself) to verify that the rper is being honest about their activity levels. I also agree with Yosh's suggestion when it comes to activity levels and it being person by person.

To refine it a bit, I'd like to suggest the idea of setting up a role (member group?) that would be monitored by a sort of sub-staff. This member group would have the full 5 slots compared to the less active, normal member group that would be allowed 3. My thought is neither would have special slots. As for the sub-staff thing, (activity monitors?) maybe the site could implement a helper system? Recruiting trusted members that aren't actually staff (alternatively, current special ranks like Leaders/Deputies/full MCs) to check over and confirm those links in the activity check, and monitor posting habits for people applying for the active group. These activity monitors could submit their findings to staff for confirmation.

Overall, it promotes awareness of clan happenings and would also encourage activity. the Activity Monitor system would make it so that added stress wouldn't be piled on to staff, and those Monitors wouldn't need staff perms to do their job. Much like the tree trimmers for the sitewide tree. Hopefully some of this is helpful in letting you guys make your decision, and if at all possible I'd be very interested in hearing whether or not y'all think this system would be viable (and why <3).

Re: Make WCC Great Again Mon 21 Jan 2019 - 8:21 by Falcarolwing

I like your suggestions, Kari!

Re: Make WCC Great Again Mon 21 Jan 2019 - 9:08 by 8155666

i do not think this resort is the most effective solution to this problem, and so i will voice my opinion saying i agree with Falconwing's, Yoshachu's, and Kari's suggestions about an implement where staff or a team would check users to see which cats they are actively using and which ones they are keeping solely for the reason of keeping them alive. i think this is one of the best solutions as it would be unfair for people who actively roleplay all of their cats and would have to decide between which ones to kill off and which to keep.

i'm basically just restating what i agree with that everyone else has stated here.
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edit: reading seer's comment, they make very valid points and arguments that rival the things i've said above. i consider myself to be a very open-minded person, and with that being said, this change/update is something i wouldn't mind at all, and i think we should go for it.

Re: Make WCC Great Again Mon 21 Jan 2019 - 9:26 by Inky Pawprints

I know I hadn't been around for a while, only watching from the sidelines without even login in to rp, so my opinion may not hold as much weight, but I see no reason to not say it.

As much as I love the cats I created and saw grow, I must admit that I do agree a slot number reduction might be necessary.

Maybe for those that still have a lot of free time in their hands this might come up as unfair, but when your everyday schedule begins to fill up, it starts to become more and more complicated, and sometimes even intimidating, to keep up with all 5+ cats you have, to the point where some such as my Nightheart came to be barely rped, and that was when I had to due to mentor responsibilities. Plus, you may say that it is not the case, but from my own personal experience, you become detached from several of your cats, and the only reason you don't kill them off is because of the idea of "maybe later I can do something cool with them" or "I'm too attached, I don't want to", and in the end they just start collecting dust in the background, as good as dead in terms of rp usage yet taking up allegiance space. Or if you try to use them to avoid that, you actually end up neglecting those that you really want to rp, like it happened to me with Hawkstrike, just cuz I wanted to keep my newer cats active, I neglected him and the amazing plot I seriously wanted him to have 3 times in a row.

Now, in favor of those people with free time, I may agree that maybe 4 slots and getting rid of all special extra slots might be a good way to go instead of cutting it down to 3. However, the point remains, we NEED a slot number reduction, urgently.

Personally speaking, having less cats to handle would actually encourage me to come back and actively rp again,even with the busy irl schedule I have, as I would find it less intimidating, it would feel less like a chore I need to do and more like a fun time I want to have, like it was back when I first joined.

PD: Excuse typos if any, posting through phone

Re: Make WCC Great Again Mon 21 Jan 2019 - 9:27 by **Seer**

here comes seer, ready to infringe upon ur rights as a member of wcc

Why does Staff think that trimming down the official slot will help curb the imbalance of current cats to activity?

The 5 slot limit was originally created, as previously mentioned in my original post, during an era of WCC where we hardly had enough users to genuinely fill a Clan- it wasn't uncommon for an unpopular Clan such as WindClan to have three characters total. It worked great for several years, helping effectively work with the struggling numbers that were currently being experienced upon the site. Then, slowly and surely throughout the years, WCC began to grow! Where we used to have only a handful of truly active users, we suddenly had a plethora. Every Clan began to experience a steady increase of numbers, and it was great! New slots were created throughout the years in the hopes of enticing users to willingly rank up into previously unpopular slots, such as Elders/Queens, and everything worked out great in the end.

But wait, it didn't. Five slots, technically eight including the Elders/Queen slot, is a lot to balance- whether you want to publicly acknowledge it or not, spreading the proper amount of time between these many characters can be quite difficult. As a result, the current issue we've all been noticing upon WCC lately:
- Characters gathering dust, lacking dimension, rarely appearing in RP and normally just appearing in Activity Checks.
- Clans have virtually no complex relationships, there's no tightly-knit bonds anymore. Leaders barely know cats because they hardly exist outside of Activity Checks.
- Hideously unbalanced Clans: RiverClan well beyond 30 cats, SkyClan probably not even presenting half of those numbers.
- Hardly ANY PATRIOTISM! These days you kids don't want to fight and die 4 ur favorite Clan like a true OG. The all-mighty cult of Erin Hunters would be ashamed.

Now, in pursuit of a potential solution to this conundrum, we could just go full-blown authoritarian state and start sniping cats who aren't meeting the Staff decided bare-minimum of activity that enables you to keep a character alive. But don't y'all realize how... just cruel and genuinely unfair that is? Potentially punishing people for prioritizing real life over a cat rp site? WCC is fun, it's free, it's meant for you to hang out on whenever you have the time to do so! Putting such a straining constraint upon people would obliterate the concept of just what WCC is supposed to be for its users. This isn't work or school, this isn't your very livelihood; you shouldn't feel pressured to place WCC above everything else in your life just for a chance to participate.

Imagine these scenarios;

- Something unexpected comes up in real-life and you're forced to push WCC off the table for a potentially extended period of time while trying to figure out the understandably much more vital issues going on in real life. However, you're super excited to get a chance to come back to the site and pick back up where you were forced to leave off with your current batch of characters. But wait, since you were inactive for a certain amount of time, Staff killed off your characters since your inactivity went beyond the allotted time-frame- sorry!

- School/work has been really rough for you, and it's gotten to the point where you find yourself unable to find a productive balance between the pair. You weigh your options and decide to put work/school above WCC, and instead take a step back from the site as a whole until you get more time. And eventually, more time does come! So you decide to venture back to WCC in hopes of picking back up wherever you might have left off. But wait, since you were inactive for a certain amount of time, Staff killed off your characters since your inactivity went beyond the allotted time-frame- sorry!

And so here we are, the concept of limiting slots over all. Instead of forcing people to submit to ridiculous regulations, jump through fiery hoops in order to prove that they're active enough to meet predetermined standards, or other fun-draining and crushing concepts, why not go back to the source of the issue itself? Slots. The slots, it's always the slots. It's true that user activity is a heavy weight behind the flourishing of characters, but by potentially enabling users to spread themselves much too thin in pursuit of having many characters is a negative concept. It's easier to balance three characters, marginally more so than trying to balance eight. It's not as though we're cutting down to a single cat per user, as initially discussed. Three characters still gives you enough room to do so many different things! If you've hit a wall with one, you still have two other characters to switch between. You still have the ability to participate within multiple different Clans. You still have the ability to have varying personalities and plots. You still have all the character freedoms that WCC gives. Is three really so different from five? You're simply letting a number go, not principle aspects of individualistic character building that we love.

Why not allow some 'responsible' members to keep their five characters, and not others?
Y'all... this is a terrible idea when it comes down to examining the fine print. This would so easily cause enmity and disdain towards the processes of the site itself, I can't even imagine how it would make certain users feel in regards to each other. Allowing user A to keep their five characters upon the decision of Staff, while user B isn't allowed to do so? That would instill serious favoritism and elitism within the community itself. Why is user A allowed to keep their characters above user B? Is it because Staff likes them more? Is it because they've been on the site longer? Is it because they are perceived as a better RPer? Is it because they have more friends on the site? Instilling the belief that one person is more partial to the 'reward' of more slots than another is harmful, it's unfair, and it would inevitably plague us with a score of issues between the the user base itself, not to mention Staff.

No one user is more 'responsible' than another, and no person deserves an extra amount of slots over another. If we downsize our allotted slot limit, we do so as a community.

Why can't Staff just assign a team to comb through Activity Checks/Enforce Activity?
Please check above^ on how Staff feels about murdering people about not being active 24/7.
We're not opposed to inactive RPers.
We're opposed to inactive RPers to deliberately leave characters to gather dust.

I know some people fail to fully grasp this concept, but understand: WCC is not paid work. WCC is not school work. There is no genuine benefit in obsessively devoting every waking moment to WCC. Everything that is done on WCC is done with whatever free time that both Staff and users alike have. If we were to ask people to constantly and without-fail check in upon the activity levels of every character, they'd never stop- especially if we kept up with 8. I'm not going to force people to just exist on WCC with the purpose of just spamming out,
"hey be active or I'll kill you." messages.

Is the current method of execution already chosen?
Yes, it is! Staff has everything planned out and ready to go. Everybody's characters aren't simply going to vanish into thin air as Lichenmask might have hoped they would, there's going to be a series of events that will gradually come to light through in-RP clues. This isn't going to just happen overnight, this will be a great big story that will chance the history of the site all-together.

How soon will this happen? Will it impact the current score of Clan-based plots going on?
This will not happen as soon as you wake up tomorrow morning. Keep in mind that this will be a sizable plot, so nothing will happen before you even have the ability to blink or process the verdict! Staff will allow adequate time for sorting through your current character and deciding your expendables, as well as time for gearing up for the Doom of Valyria cat style.

As for the current on-going Clan-based plots, Staff will confer with the Leaders of each Clan to assess the current progress of every mini-plot. If the mini-plot has yet to even start, we'll simply ask the Leaders to hold onto the plot and wait for in the aftermath of the Doom of Valyria. If the plot is a sizable way into its current storyline, we'll have to make a decision between two outcomes: wait and let the plot conclude, or pause it for the time being. Either way, we will not be retconning any of the current mini-plots!

Re: Make WCC Great Again Mon 21 Jan 2019 - 9:45 by **sumashira**

my only thought is i'm already bored with full 5 characters because unlike most people on the site I don't work or school so i have lots of free time

so this could either make that better by giving people fewer characters to worry about

or make that even worse by making fewer characters to interact with

that's all from me I guess, i already know who i'm axing ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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