You Feel Your Sins Crawling Down Your Back (OPEN - Ivystar needed)

Ravenpaw frowned. "It doesn't seem much different to me, but it must to you, being gone for so long." Ravenpaw paused before continuing. "Well... the biggest thing is the Sunningrocks war. I wasn't there, but it was a huge battle. RiverClan won, but a ThunderClan apprentice was killed in battle, and ThunderClan isn't happy about it. I guess it has been different lately,"she admitted, stopping to wait for Swanpaw's reaction. It was hard to tell what kind of cat she was, and Ravenpaw had no idea how she would respond. Maybe she should have let someone else tell Swanpaw about the feud with ThunderClan.

A ThunderClan apprentice was killed? What happened? "Well, if an apprentice was killed... I should hope the cat who caused it has been punished suitably?" She hadn't been part of a Clan in some time now, but she remembered the code, and be it an accident or an intentional thing murder was not to be taken lightly. After all, she had learned and lived by that code since her birth. It wasn't easy to forget. But she had faith in her Clanmates.

Nutfur hissed lowly at Spotpaw's insult, but did nothing else other than glare at him threateningly. He shouldn't have insulted her, but he was a clanmate. She shrunk lower when they started talking about the battle, not wanting to get involved. She didn't support it, but she didn't really want the rest of the clan to know that. Ravenpaw did a good job of explaining it without showing too much emotion, which she was glad for. But then Swanpaw had to say the one thing that could make it worse. Her heart beat sped up, and she knew she must protect her friend. She didn't know, but the clan might still turn on her. Maybe just a subtle hint would be best so she dropped the subject. Padding closer, she whispered so only the apprentice could hear.
"Actually, Ivystar kind of praised him. It would be for the best if you stopped talking about it, because you might be punished."

Sweetheart fumed at Ivystar's words, and when the leader padded away she made her way past Swanpaw towards the fresh-kill pile, her tail lashing. She ignored Nutfur's warning, but made sure to keep her voice low so Ivystar wouldn't hear her. "Oh, and those guests you heard Ivystar mention just now? No, they're our prisoners. You may wanna say hi sometime to ThunderClan's medicine cat who is stuck here instead of treating wounds back in her own Clan from the battle." she hissed. She gnashed her teeth into a couple of fish by their tails and stalked over to the caverns where they held the two ThunderClan cats hostage, grabbing Snailbelly's attention with a flick of her tail as she went.

Snailbelly followed her, not saying much himself. What could he say that had not already been said?

Swanpaw reeled at those words. "What?!" she spat, her voice at normal volume. "I honestly... I don't care right now. If stating what I believe is right ends with me being punished, so be it. I already trekked through the Twolegplace," she added drily. Her leader, a cat she had once respected, praising murder? "I'm sorry. Ivystar did what? ...A warrior killed an apprentice, and her response was to praise the warrior that did it?" the silvery she-cat asked, her voice rising. "Clearly the entirety of RiverClan has lost it since I got captured, because that's..." She honestly had to wrack her brain for a word to describe it. "Despicable," she settled on, her voice likely ringing through the entire camp at that point. She was furious, and she didn't care who heard what she had to say. From what she understood, not only had a cat apparently broken the warrior code and killed an apprentice, but he had been praised for it. There was no good way she could twist that in her mind.

The warrior she didn't know spoke again, informing her that ThunderClan's medicine cat had been taken hostage before leaving, presumably to bring them food as instructed, and Swanpaw bristled angrily. That had to be breaking some kind of rule. No matter what, though, it disgusted her. Not only had ThunderClan quite obviously lost the battle from everything she had seen and heard, but they had been deprived of their medicine cat? A low hiss escaped her. It truly was despicable.

If this day ended with her walking right back out of RiverClan's camp, she would take it willingly. But she had never been one not to speak her mind, whether she was right or wrong. Stubborn, aggressive, impulsive - she was all of those things. And she was not going to be quiet.

Nutfur sighed and prepared for the worst after Sweetheart's words. Why did she have to do that? This could be settled without an argument. That hope flew out the window when Swanpaw blew up. If cats could facepalm, she certainly would have. Why? She had just told her not to do exactly what she just did! Well, what had she expected? It was partially her fault. Ever since the apprentice's mother had died, she had been stubborn and loud, so to not react that way would be out of character. And she completely agreed with her. Murder was not acceptable in the slightest. The way Ivystar twisted the code to fit her meaning was not tolerable. Kidnapping a medicine cat and a warrior was just plain horrible. But what good would saying that to the leader's face do? Get her punished, that's what. The silver tabby who had the nerve to bend the sacred code wouldn't be at all moved by a young apprentice who was know to have anger issues. She had to stop this.
"As much as I wholeheartedly agree with you," Nutfur hissed warningly, fear showing in her eyes. "Ivystar is not going to change her mind because of what you say. If someone is evil enough to selfishly twist the holy code, take captive a medicine cat, and praise murder, do you think an apprentice will change her mind? Now please don't tell anyone I said that or you will have something else to worry about!"

"Oh, it's a little too late for that." The leader replied to Nutfur in an equally dry manner, matching Swanpaw's tone quite aptly. The silver tabby looked deeply unimpressed at the gathering before her, sighing at their naivety. It was hard to be angry, their reaction came from a place of innocence and lack of experience. None of them knew the true sting of battle, the pain of losing everything. But that was for the best, she'd fought for their innocence, so that they could hold moral debates like this, assuming only the best of others. "Nutfur, when exactly did I praise Otterleap for killing Thistlepaw? Was it before or after I started chanting to the Dark Forest? Or was it after I feasted on the blood of kits?"

"Swanpaw, Blizzardstar decided that ThunderClan is the rightful owners of Sunningrocks and that her clan's needs surpass our own. She fought us for those lands, and she lost. But do you really think if I just let her slink back, she'd calm down? That she'd accept defeat?" She made it clear with her tone that she thought quite the opposite. "Holding onto Honeyspark, we prevent Blizzardstar from attacking us again during Leafbare, if the she-cat has any sense. We'll be returning her at the next gathering to help out her clanmates, but for now, we keep her. It's not as if they have no one to aid them, and SkyClan is their ally. We must do what we must to keep our clan safe. Your compassion, Sweetheart, Nutfur, should be saved for your clanmates. What Otterleap did was regrettable, but hopefully it showed Blizzardstar the cost if she tries engage us again in warfare. No battle is won without bloodshed."

After a pause, she closed her eyes to take in a deep breath. "Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go bathe in the blood of my enemies. Rest up, Swanpaw. And go do your duties, Sweetheart, Snailbelly. That's an order from your leader."

But this isn't right! Heronpaw thought after Ivystar's words.  This is about morality!  And you have no morals! He glared at Ivystar, the cat that he was ashamed to call his leader.

OOC: if THAT is Ivystar's response, Heronpaw would participate at this

Sweetheart stopped to listen to her leader, her tail flicking irritably. Sure, she should be compassionate for her Clanmates, she never intended on not doing so, but was it really a crime to care about the other Clans as well? Without five Clans in the forest, there would be no harmony that the five cats who even founded the Clans many seasons ago wanted to make and uphold. If one Clan died out or weakened so severely for another Clan to take over, everything would fall to chaos!

She sighed heavily around the fish tails. No matter what she would try to do or say, Ivystar would never listen to or even consider the opinions of those who believed in what was right for not just RiverClan, but all five Clans as a whole. What was even the point of Clan meetings or discussions if decisions were already set in stone, and you would be scolded or punished for thinking differently?

Not saying anything else, she resumed stalking to the caverns to feed their prisoners.

Spotpaw breathed deeply as he tried to calm down, but as the cats made their arguments he found he could not. He leaped out of his little sulking-spot. He tried to speak cooly but couldn't keep emotion out of his voice. "Swanpaw, I apologize. I tend to act out at times, and from what I've seen you have that problem too. On the topic of our current events," He glanced at Ivystar as he said this, "I agree entirely. To think that my own Clan- who I thought was the most honorable, best Clan in the forest- would kill?" He looked down as he spoke. "And furthermore, take Thunderclan's medicine cat and a warrior, condemning the forest to surely be reduced to four! Thunderclan is weak, and they've shown that. By the time it is newleaf, Thunderclan will be gone from the forest, and it will be because of Riverclan's actions. Punish me as you will, Ivystar, but I am speaking my true mind." He lifted his head high, eyes burning and pose confident. "I disagree with what you have done and are doing and I demand Honeyspark and Lionspark be returned to their rightful home! If you keep on this path,
I guarantee, Ivystar, that you will regret it! I do know that according to the warrior code, a leader's word is law. However, I know it also says that an HONORABLE warrior doesn't need to kill. And,
beyond that, it says that each Clan should help the others so no Clan falls. Recent events say that Riverclan is doing the opposite. Who else in Riverclan disagrees? Who else thinks Thistlepaw shouldn't have been killed? Riverclan, hear my words! I think that this needs to stop!" He began to breathe again. Ivystar's going to kill me! But... at least now maybe we can return to honor.

Viperstorm had just padded into the camp, after hearing the whole commotion. A low growl left the warriors throat. "That is enough!" The blue gray warrior had her claws digging into the dirt. "As far as I remember, Ivystar gave a fair warning to Thunderclan about what would happen if they tried to take Sunningrocks. Thunderclan did this to themselves, and beisides doesn't Thunderclan have a medicine cat apprentice? It's not like they are randomly going to finish themselves off. If they did then good riddance more land for us."

The new warrior looked at Spotpaw and Swanpaw. "Thunderclan has no one else to blame but themselves for Thistlepaw's death and their situation." The warrior growled. "So if you want to continue to be traitors, I can treat you like one right now and chase you out Apprentices." She didn't care for their attitudes in the slightest. "Worry about your own clan first, you fish brains." The warrior padded away from the two rebelous apprentices and over to Ivystar to give her a report about the patrol.

Though Ivystar had intended on leave to her duties, Spotpaw and Viperstorm's exchange drew her back into the fruitless debate over morality. The leader sighed heavily, though she understood their youth and naivety led to this, it was a distraction she didn't need. But this was the fate of a leader, therefore she brushed past Viperstorm fondly before approaching the little posse again.

"Thank you Viperstorm for your defence, but it seems our words fall on deaf ears. Go rest, I'll speak with them." The leader sat down, resigning herself to a long chat. "Spotpaw, I just said that Honeyspark will return to her clan with the next gathering. As for Lionspark, we need her to secure our protection from ThunderClan foolishness. They are the ones who attacked us, trying to drive us out of our own lands. This is Leafbare, the river is too frozen for fish, and we are scarcely managing to feed our own. Would you have me give up our lands and starve our own so ThunderClan flourish? Save your breath for shouting at our enemies, Spotpaw. There have been five clans in the forest for plenty of moons, I doubt one rough Leafbare will lead to ThunderClan's destruction."

Then she glanced over at Otterleap, the senior warrior looked dishevelled and utterly alone. "As for Thistlepaw's death, the world is not that simple, Spotpaw. Do you have any idea how many cats ThunderClan has killed from our clan over the years? Does it make killing any better? No. But when cats have their backs against the trunk, anything can happen. Otterleap has been punished plenty by his own guilt and your constant visible hatred of him. Would your misplaced guilt be banished if I exiled him? Killed him? What do you propose I do? Should I send him to Blizzardstar so she can execute him herself?"

Duckpuddle curiously poked her head out of the warriors' den and glanced around at the group of apprentices and warriors that had gathered together. Even Ivystar was among them, and that sparked Duckpuddle's curiosity even more. However, the little meeting apparently wasn't a pleasant one for the expressions on the faces of the cats gave away anything but pleasure and delight. Plus, the voices that she had heard from her den were sharp and even a bit unfriendly. From what she had experienced at the pre-Sunningrocks meeting, obviously speaking her own opinion would result in some other Clan going against her. Then again, opinions were meant to be challenged. Her green eyes nervously glanced between Ivystar, Spotpaw, Otterleap, and Heronpaw. She hobbled out of the den and silently placed herself at the edge of the small gathering of RiverClan cats. She immediately noticed that there was also a strange apprentice in the midst of the familiar Clanners. She didn't recognize the she-cat, but Duckpuddle decided that if she was being welcomed into the camp then she must've been a former RiverClan cat. With an awkward sigh, the she-cat sat down so that her leg was comfortable in her splint and continued to silently watch. No, she didn't agree with the fact that there were hostages taken in by RiverClan, including a medicine cat. However, sometimes cats needed to learn that the leader's words were the warrior code, and they needed to be listened to. While Duckpuddle had no intention of verbally attacking Ivystar, like some of the other cats, she still held on to the same opinions that she had prior to the battle and afterward, too. The she-cat lifted herself up while still staring at the cats, and headed towards the camp exit. All she wanted to do was avoid speaking to anyone right now. Glancing one more look over her shoulder, the brown she-cat padded out of camp and left the other gathered cats to themselves.

Spotpaw's fur bristled. "Think about it, Ivystar. Could cats have died from wounds later on, with one little apprentice to help them rather than an apprentice AND a medicine cat? And "one hard leafbare" is not what will lead to destruction. I mean keeping this behavior. All this fuss over a bunch of rocks. How would you react if Thunderclan killed an apprentice, won the battle of Sunningrocks, AND then took Cloudstone and a warrior? What would you do, Ivystar? Would you attack them back, like Thunderclan surely will? Those of us from the first battle are still recovering from wounds and might not get so lucky next time. If no one else in Riverclan has my opinion, I will stand alone. If those who share my opinion are too cowardly to stand with me, I will stand alone. You can do what you like to me, but this is my opinion." He should have been nervous speaking so freely in front of his Clan, and more so his leader. Somehow, he seemed to have the bravery of a Lionclan cat.